In The Empire Strikes Back, during Luke Skywalker’s training with Master Yoda, young Skywalker asks a simple yet profound question: “Is the Dark Side stronger?” Yoda reassures him that no, the Dark Side isn’t stronger — easier and more seductive perhaps, but not stronger. Looking back now, the irony isn’t lost on me that Mark Hamill, the iconic actor known for playing good guy Luke Skywalker, has since become a go-to star for being cast as… villains. For Hamill, perhaps, the pull to play these decidedly Dark-Path roles has proven to be a bit more powerful.
But if there’s anything we’ve learned over the years from Star Wars lore, it’s that for the Force to exist, there must be balance. And after speaking with the legendary star, it’s clear that when it comes to the villainous roles he gravitates towards, the balance comes from him: Hamill is the light.
In his prolific career spanning five decades and hundreds of acting credits, Hamill has tapped into that symbiosis to bring to life memorable characters like the Hobgoblin in Spider-Man: The Animated Series, Fire Lord Ozai in Avatar: The Last Airbender, Chucky in 2019’s Child’s Play, (arguably most notably) the Joker in a smattering of DC Comics titles, and many more. His latest graze with evil? He’s tackling the role of King Herod — as in the man most notorious for the biblical Massacre of the Innocents — in Angel Studios’ new animated film The King of Kings.
Speaking with Hamill just ahead of the movie’s release, I couldn’t help but wonder: Why so much dabbling in the Dark Side these days?
“Any interesting villain is appealing to me because they really set the plot in motion,” he explains. “If you look at the structure of things, he’s what messes the protagonist up. He’s really sort of the linchpin in the plots for the most part.”
Of course, sometimes the reason an actor is drawn to a role has as much to do with the real-life people behind the scenes as it does with the character. In the case of The King of Kings, Hamill couldn’t refuse another opportunity to work with Jamie Thomason, who co-wrote the film, served as the casting director, and voiced a few roles himself (“Jamie is one of those people who’s so good at what he does.”)
The approach a project takes is also often tied to appeal for Hamill, which makes sense, given he often plays characters like the Joker or Herod, who have a lot of history behind them.
“Everything comes from the script. That’s that old saying, ‘If it ain’t on the page, it ain’t on the stage.’ So, you read the script and you say, ‘What can I do?’ Or ‘What do I need to do to maximize the impact of the story?’” he says. So, it often boils down to finding that thing within the script that makes the role novel.
“That was what was interesting about doing Joker because, in some scripts, he was malevolent and frightening and homicidal. In other scripts, there was a parody of Thelma and Louise with Harley Quinn and Poison Ivy, where they go off together and leave the Joker behind,” Hamill elaborates. “He’s shuffling around the house in furry slippers, and he’s played almost like … it’s poignant. It’s more comedic.”
Each time he takes a role, Hamill says, he asks himself: What do they require from this particular script?
When he was asked to do Chucky, his initial response was to say no. “‘Brad Dourif is Chucky. I can’t do that.’ But they sent me the script, and it was a completely different approach. It wasn’t the same character. Brad’s version was a doll that was infected with demonic souls,” he explains. “In my version, it was a high-tech AI electronic toy that a disgruntled employee went in and deliberately turned off the safety measures that wouldn’t let him commit violence and so forth. He was like a young, innocent child, and he grew into this monster just observing behavior. He’s watching these teenagers all laughing at a slasher movie, so he’s looking at the movie where a murderer is killing people, and he’s watching the kids on the couch laughing and delighted with what they’re seeing. And he processes that and grows into the Chucky that most people remember. So, I thought, ‘Well, that’s clever.’”
It made the role a complete reboot — something Hamill says is important to him in choosing characters: “I wouldn’t want to replace someone like that without their approval.”
But at least one of the reasons Hamill keeps signing up to be the bad guy has to do with the psychology of these roles: Of playing the Joker, the actor has admitted he likes that the character is insane because his insanity means he’s not dull. “I mean, when you’re mad, you’re unpredictable,” he tells me. “And when you’re unpredictable, you’re never boring.”
You can’t get much madder than Herod, either. “The King of Jews who makes a proclamation that all young males under two years old be slaughtered — can you think of a more callous sociopath than that? And someone who just has a complete lack of empathy? As Mel Brooks said, ‘It’s good to be the king’ because you can do whatever you want. Your word is law,” Hamill points out before adding with a touch of mischief in his voice, “No parallels with what we’re going through right now, of course.”
There. That’s the thing I suspect makes Hamill so perfect for these darker roles. At his core, he is (always has been, always will be) a rebel.
When we fall on the subject of holidays, what with Easter coming up, conversation turns to our kids. His children with wife Marilou York are grown: Nicholas, 45, Griffin, 42, and Chelsea, 36. Mine, at 12 and almost 14, are just on the brink of young adulthood. I mention that I’m already feeling a sort of heartsickness over a future in which they don’t come home for holidays because they’re out there building their own traditions.
“Well, you notice over the years,” he says, suggesting it happens more gradually than that. “When they’re really young, they’re in your bedroom at 5 in the morning on Christmas morning saying, ‘Oh, let’s go downstairs!’ And then you flash forward to them being teenagers when they’re sleeping in ‘til 11, and you’re saying, ‘Guys, let’s get up. Come on; it’s Christmas morning.’ So, you see the change. But all I can tell you is to enjoy them while you can, because you turn around and they’re adults criticizing their upbringing.”
To this, I reply that as as tween and a teen, my kids are already starting to have lots of opinions.
And here’s where Hamill’s natural predisposition toward a little sedition kicks back in. “Oh, I’ll say,” he empathizes, adding, “And good for them … it’s wonderful to see them become their own person and completely individual and challenge you. Whereas before, everything you said was just absolute gospel.”
I concede, telling him I just keep reminding myself that their strong wills should serve them well someday. And that, yes, I want them to question authority.
Hamill, with his rebel heart, eagerly agrees: “That’s a good thing.”